From broken elevators to inaudible announcements, people with disabilities have a unique set of mass transit challenges.
Below is a transcript of an ADA-focused episode of News 4 New York's podcast "Listen While You Wait," which is hosted by Michael Gargiulo and focuses on mass transit issues in the region.
This week's episode focuses on mass transit accessibility for those who are disabled. We have provided this transcript of the episode so that everyone can access the information.
Check out our previous episodes of "Listen While You Wait" here.
Michael Gargiulo: Hey everybody! Welcome to “Listen While You Wait.” I’m Michael Gargiulo and this is NBC New York’s podcast about transit, commuting and dealing with our soon-to-be-over “Summer of Hell” construction at Penn Station. Today, from broken elevators to gargled announcements, commuters with disabilities face special challenges getting around our transit systems.
Now, we are going to hear first from a rider with a disability, she is Rebecca Rhodes. She’s going to tell us about some of the biggest problems, and it’s often that transit employees don’t seem to know just what their responsibilities are under the landmark law the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Gargiulo: Could you explain to us, if you don’t mind, what your disability is and how it impacts you getting around?
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Rebecca Rhodes: So, I’m a double amputee. I am lucky in two ways. And one thing I would want anyone hearing this to know is that most amputees are older than I am, meaning their bodies are not as resilient. And most, not most but many, many amputees are what are known as “above the knee amputee’s” which makes your life that much worse. Um...I’m 46 and I am amputated below the knee, which means I have my knee joint which in this brave new world of mine is a really big deal.
Gargiulo: OK.
Rhodes: So I use a wheelchair for airports because airports, unlike any other place of transportation in the world, have the wheelchair thing figured out. Right? You go to the front of the line, they have the nice person from the TSA who will do the TSA check with your wheelchair just the way they are supposed to. They are super nice, they are super kind. They have this thing figured out.
Gargiulo: Well good for them.
Rhodes: No other place of transportation in the country has wheelchairs figured out so I try to stay away from the wheelchair and use the two prosthetics if I am doing any other kind of travel, like metro travel, subway travel, train travel.
Gargiulo: Aside from the physical things that are put in place to comply with ADA, it seems uneven for transit personnel and even the passengers to have the knowledge of what your rights are, what should be provided and when it should be provided. It seems like it's catch as catch can all sometimes.
Rhodes: There is none, if you did not have and I am not patting myself on the back but this is a very diverse nation and most people who are either born disabled or end up disabled, the vast majority do not have, you know, the amazing support and opportunities that I have been lucky enough to have. So, if you did not have the cultural capital, that I am lucky enough to posses, there is nothing that informs you easily of, A: your rights in a public transport setting, or B: to whom to go to for help.
Gargiulo: Right.
Rhodes: To whom was I supposed to go refer? Was it the poor guy, ya know, who also I’m sure had a fight with his partner and ya know is out of money and whatever and was standing at the top of the Amtrak escalator that morning. Was he really the person who was meant to help me or is there someone in the scenario who is supposed to be my point of reference? That is never clear. It’s catch is catch can all, it’s however that person is feeling today. It’s whether they are in a great mood, it’s whether they know the rules. But this is not how things ought to be right? It’s not about, for people in the disability community, it’s not about how do we adapt to your “standard normal world,” it’s how do you make the world manageable for us when we are trying our hardest.
Gargiulo: Is the answer here that what you'd like to see is a standardization in terms of what should be available. What should be done and how it should be done. Not "oh gee I have to hope I get the person who really knows the ADA compliance is."
Rhodes: Yes. Everyone should be trained. That’s exactly right. First of all, signs should be in multiple languages, mind you.
Gargiulo: Absolutely.
Rhodes: There should be clear signage in multiple languages, not in 9-point font, that says, "if you are a person traveling with a disability please refer to desk X wherever desk X is" so that you know where to go if you have a question, or need help, or are feeling insecure. And B: everybody should be trained to handle that situation and know the rules, and regs, and protocols. And C: the last thing I would add that’s really important, is that those protocols are developed by any company. They need to be tested out by the disabled.
Gargiulo: Now the Federal Transit Administration did respond to our request for answers for submitted questions. Specifically, when it comes to the training our transit employees, the FTA said this: “Transit agencies are required to train their employees to be proficient concerning their responsibilities under the ADA. Individual transit agencies should be able to provide you with more information about their ADA training requirements. However, as transit agencies continue to improve accessibility, many generate questions or receive public inquiries about complying with the ADA regulations. To help transit system leadership and staff, FTA published detailed guidance in a user-friendly, one-stop resource on ADA requirements and how to implement them.” That's from the FTA.
Now, for another perspective, we spoke to Edith Prentiss, the Vice President of Legislative Affairs for Disabled in Action, an advocacy group for commuters with disabilities.
Gargiulo: What are some of the biggest challenges people with disabilities face when using mass transit? I’m going to suggest that the answer is probably, elevators that are out. Stations that are still inaccessible except through an elevator but they only have stairways.
Prentiss: For people with physical disabilities, those are the most common deterrents. For people with other disabilities, there are similarly different barriers. If you are a person who has auditory issues, you’re hard of hearing and you’re on a new train you probably can’t hear what the stop is for all the noise. You’ve got the, you know, the cowboy and the dancers in the train.
Gargiulo: Right.
Prentiss: You’ve got the drums on the platform.
Gargiulo: Right. You make such a good point Edith, because, you know you ride the subways and you see people drumming, or you see musicians playing and to those of us who don’t have a disability in that manner it’s something you don’t think about. Like, "Oh, isn’t that an interesting little bit of entertainment for us."
But you don’t realize that that takes away from someone’s ability to know, okay, I’m at Grand Central, okay I’m at 72nd Street, okay I’m Lefferts Boulevard. You don’t realize how they can be.
Prentiss: Those however easier to know where you are because you have secondary characteristics that give you, you know, signs. The bigger problem is, it’s late at night, it’s crowded, you’re on a platform and it’s so noisy you can’t see the station that you are going, "Is this 59th, which side of the platform should I be on?"
Gargiulo: What are some protections that are available to members of the ADA community?
Prentiss: The ADA is a great big huge document and we are also talking about more than just the ADA. There are other bills, there are other laws, there are other regulations, and you know, it does not behove myself as a transportation passenger to have to memorize all of these rules and regulations. It behoves the transit industry to implement them.
Gargiulo: Well what do you think the MTA could do to better implement, and other transit agencies, better implement the experience for riders with disabilities?
Prentiss: I think that there needs to be much better signage and information about what they’re doing and what the problem is.
Gargiulo: Finally, I wanted to ask you, the MTA has announced plans to look at certain cars and make them standing room only. What’s your opinion? Would you like to see the cars open with standing room only and maybe that would make more room for people?
Prentiss: I think that is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
Gargiulo: Why is that?
Prentiss: Okay we’re already standing as it is.
I have everyone hitting me in the head, the face, etcetera with their knapsacks. You want a car where everyone is going to be standing there with their knapsacks on their backs? You’re insane.
Gargiulo: So, two different voices representing riders with disabilities, but in many ways there is one message here -- transit systems need to know the ADA rules, they need to make sure that workers know them too and they need to make it easy for riders with disabilities to get the access that the law guarantees them so they can get to where they want to go. We want to thank you so much for joining us on “Listen While You Wait.” If you think your transit experiences are newsworthy, we want to hear from you, just use the #TrainPain4NY. But for now, I’m Michael Gargiulo. See you soon.
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